Is this a dbag thing to do?

[RecoveringPhilosopher]

This is going here because I don't know where it should go, but I need an answer.

So, I'm at a restaurant with my girlfriend and another couple, who are her friends. Her friend is pretty christian, which is fine. So we all get our food, and I start eating. And the christian friend says to me "Do you mind if I pray?" And I say no, and continue to eat my delicious meal. And she says again "Do you mind if I pray?" And again, I say no, and keep eating. So she prays, and we go on to have a lovely evening.
Clearly, this young woman expected me to stop eating and wait for her to pray. Is this presumptive of her, or am I a dbag for continuing to eat? Why or why not? Show you work.

(I mean, I am actually a dbag, but I'm asking about this one particular instance)

[Broken Winged Birdy]

I personally think she was a bit pushy. If she had nicely said something . . .

I don't think you neccesarily did anything rude.

[beckysoup61]

I don't think you were rude at all.

[jamaesi]

I think saying dbag is the only rude thing here.

[RecoveringPhilosopher]

I think saying dbag is the only rude thing here.

Ha! Sunni-side up! Awesome.

[little owl]

Nah, nothing wrong with that.

[IasonOuabache]

Dbag = doggie bag? :evilgrin:

I don't think you did the wrong thing. She shouldn't expect you to have the same beliefs and rituals as her. Her trying to shame you into joining her was rude.

[revtroy]

That is a good question. Presumably you wouldn't continue a conversation once you said you didn't mind if they prayed. Also, giving consent in that manner wouldn't necessarily imply that you would be participating in the prayer and so giving your attention and intent to it. So, it was good that she asked, and you agreed it would be OK and presumably that you wouldn't interfere.

So, I think if she hadn't of repeated the request, you'd have done no wrong. However, when she asked again, she implied that your eating was an interference. Given the situation I think it would have been polite to pause for a short period of time so as not to distract and in that way easily accommodate a brief prayer.

The environment does matter. If the location was noisy to the point that your eating could not have provided a distraction, so that her second request was clearly a request for your participation in the prayer, then she was expecting more than she was asking for. Even then, I think it would have been polite to pause briefly. You lose nothing by it and it accommodates a felt need. In any case, if the prayer is not a prayer, if it becomes a mini-sermon or just goes on too long, then it is more of an accommodation than was asked for--so eat.

[Vex]

Who paid for the food?

[Vex]

So, I think if she hadn't of repeated the request, you'd have done no wrong. However, when she asked again, she implied that your eating was an interference. Given the situation I think it would have been polite to pause for a short period of time so as not to distract and in that way easily accommodate a brief prayer.
Why? It doesn't sound like she has a whole lot of respect for other beliefs if she's expecting special treatment for hers.

I say, if you want to display your religion by praying in public, I have the right to display mine by ignoring it.

[Broken Winged Birdy]

So, I think if she hadn't of repeated the request, you'd have done no wrong. However, when she asked again, she implied that your eating was an interference. Given the situation I think it would have been polite to pause for a short period of time so as not to distract and in that way easily accommodate a brief prayer.
Why? It doesn't sound like she has a whole lot of respect for other beliefs if she's expecting special treatment for hers.

I say, if you want to display your religion by praying in public, I have the right to display mine by ignoring it.

I really agree with Vex here. I see where revtroy is coming from, but the woman just seems like a pushy prayer to me.

[Slatka]

I think it's important to be polite when you are dealing with a person who does not share your culture. For example, if I'm at a cafe and there is an American in line waiting to order - I wouldn't push right up against them or cut in front of them if they pause a moment before stepping forward and so on. They don't know how to queue. If there is a German who calls out to the waitress for service, I wouldn't say anything - they don't know that customer service is a privilege and not a right in our culture, they don't know the waitress can you leave you there two days without any repercussions if you annoy her.

But, this woman, she is from the same culture as you. If you don't know instantly that what you're doing is rude then it's probably not.

[Maitreya]

I don't think you did anything wrong. I think she sounds kinda pushy to be quite honest...
"PRAY WITH MEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!" :mad:

[Ðanisty]

I don't think you did anything wrong. Honestly, I don't even know why she asked you if she could pray in the first place. It's not like you have any ability to stop her. I think you were being polite actually. She asked you and you said it was okay. Of course we really know she wasn't asking your permission, but because she asked, she could have gotten a "no" from you.

[Maitreya]

I don't think you did anything wrong. Honestly, I don't even know why she asked you if she could pray in the first place. It's not like you have any ability to stop her. I think you were being polite actually. She asked you and you said it was okay. Of course we really know she wasn't asking your permission, but because she asked, she could have gotten a "no" from you.
Yea, I just think she sounds incredibly pushy. I always say a mantra in my head before I eat, but I don't say, "Uh, hey, guys... guys, everybody be quiet. Is it okay if I say a mantra?... Hey! STOP EATING!!! CAN I PLEASE SAY A MANTRA?!" That would be very pushy and over-bearing, IMHO.

[revtroy]

Aside from our own personal reactions, what facts are presented is that someone at a dinner asked if others minded if she prayed. In doing this she acknowledged that it was an accommodation she was asking for. If the response had been, "no, I don't feel comfortable with that," it would be a different story. However, that accommodation was assented to by all involved. If you assent to an accommodation and then do not act, or not act, to provide that accommodation--you have failed to act as you said that you would, broken your word.

In this situation the person assenting to the accommodation apparently did not originally think that it meant stopping what he was doing. When asked again, implying strongly that it did, he assented again, but did not stop to make the accommodation--at that point he was no longer doing what he had assented to do. There may have been a level of misunderstanding the initial request on his part, and a more important aspect of her not stating clearly what she was asking for. A lack of skillful means in the situation. He knew he was being impolite to some degree, he is asking to what extent, and if it was justified.

Also, despite unfounded judgments of pushiness, there is a difference of culture, religious culture. What she considered to be a part of what she was asking for and was given assent to do, involved a pause from eating to her. Due to misunderstanding, or frankly obstinacy, he did not provide the accommodation she had asked for. She could have made a new request rather than repeating the previous one, but the meaning was plain.

Being pushy, given the facts at hand, would have involved assuming accommodation, rather than asking for it. In any case, if it weren't a religious accommodation that involved something so minor as pausing before eating for less than five minutes, I think you would all conclude that it was rude. The only justification that is given is the assumption that she is pushing her beliefs on others. This may be the case, despite her asking for special accommodation, but we cannot assume it to be so from the facts we are given.

The setting is also a social one among friends and acquaintances who are together voluntarily and there is an implicit social agreement to be polite to one another. That is why I think providing accommodation of such a trivial nature is polite regardless of intent. If you can't pause from eating on the behalf of a diner partner for one minute even for no good reason, after asked, you are showing hostility to that person which in a social situation is rude. If a diner parter asked if you minded waiting while they went to wash their hands. And you said no, but didn't wait, it would be rude.

It is also generally considered to be polite behavior to wait until everyone is served and ready before beginning one's own meal. Pausing for a prayer would also fit under this situation.

Now, perhaps being rude about religion is something you seek to engage in, but personally I do not. I think asking for accommodation was the polite thing to do, and pausing briefly is a trivial accommodation.

[Maitreya]

I just don't understand why she just couldn't say a silent prayer to herself. Why does she need everyone to stop eating in order for her to thank God for her food? If people around her just want to eat and not pray, then why does she need to 'push the envelope', so to speak?

[Aqualung]

I think it was pretty tactless of your. When you're in a public setting like that, somebody's deep-seated beliefs should trump your mere appetite every time. She probably found it exteremely distracting to have to pray while somebody else was obviously ignoring a polite yet obvious request (obviously obvious because you pointed it out yourself), and yet praying before a meal is a necessary thing for her. You caused her more pain by not allowing her to pray in peace than you saved yourself by having your bite of dinner ten seconds earlier.

Why? It doesn't sound like she has a whole lot of respect for other beliefs if she's expecting special treatment for hers.
What belief? He wasn't trying to practice his belief by merely eating. She was trying to practice her belief by praying. It's nto like she was requiring him to pray, too - she just wanted to be able to pray without distraction; she just asked a couple of meaningless seconds out of his life to do something very important to her. The difference between eating and not eating for two seconds is minimal. The difference between praying and not praying is huge for a believer.

And, why was she pushy? She only asked twice (politely), and after the second time gave up completely.

Revtroy did a good job of summing it up with this paragraph
The setting is also a social one among friends and acquaintances who are together voluntarily and there is an implicit social agreement to be polite to one another. That is why I think providing accommodation of such a trivial nature is polite regardless of intent. If you can't pause from eating on the behalf of a diner partner for one minute even for no good reason, after asked, you are showing hostility to that person which in a social situation is rude. If a diner parter asked if you minded waiting while they went to wash their hands. And you said no, but didn't wait, it would be rude.

I just don't understand why she just couldn't say a silent prayer to herself. Why does she need everyone to stop eating in order for her to thank God for her food? If people around her just want to eat and not pray, then why does she need to 'push the envelope', so to speak?
Does it matter why she needed it? She asked for it, the OP said he would give it and didn't. That's rude, no matter what her initial reasons for asking were.

[Lizskid]

She was soliciting your participation, which is your choice. You were not interferring. In a public setting like that, you can't always expect quiet, etc. I think you were both set on your view, no harm, no foul. As Troy said, if you had been conversing and actively interfered, it would have been very rude.

[Danhalen]

When you're in a public setting like that, somebody's deep-seated beliefs should trump your mere appetite every time.Why? Why should someone else's lifestyle choices compel me to change my behavior? Her prayer did not require anyone else to be observant. Perhaps she should be more thick skinned in a public arena.

[Aqualung]

When you're in a public setting like that, somebody's deep-seated beliefs should trump your mere appetite every time.Why? Why should someone else's lifestyle choices compel me to change my behavior? Her prayer did not require anyone else to be observant. Perhaps she should be more thick skinned in a public arena.

Nice name.

But, to answer your question - because when you choose to associate with other people, you are implicitely agreeing to be sociable. Like, you don't ask a girl to go out with you just so you can beat her up. You don't ask somebody to play basketball with you so you can take the ball away from them and throw it at their head. And you don't go out to dinner with people to be rude to them. Sometimes there just has to be some concessions to not be rude. In this case, a concession was necessary. Religion > eating ten seconds earlier. If you don't want to have to deal with other people's religions, or you think a small concession is being "compelled", then the choice is pretty simple: don't associate with them in the first place. Don't go out to dinner with Christians. Don't have Christian friends. Whatever. Social relationships sometimes require socially acceptable concessions.

[Danhalen]

I think he won't be having dinner with that particular Christian again. He did not go to dinner knowing he would have to pause first. Most Christians do not ask people to wait for them to pray. She was breaking a social norm in asking him to wait for her to pray before eating. Yes, we must take time to evaluate social behavior before we commit to a course of action, but in this case he was not doing anything socially unacceptable to the vast majority of diners in the country. Why should she not have to take into consideration the social norms? Why does her religious conviction trump social convention? I should not have to alter my behavior to make people outside of social norms feel comfortable.

[Aqualung]

I think he won't be having dinner with that particular Christian again.
Which is the sensible thing to do. But if you get into that situation first off without realising it, you can either be considerate and yeild your lesser need to her greater need, or you can be a "dbag" and not yeild at all.

She was breaking a social norm in asking him to wait for her to pray before eating.
Hmmm... Good point.

[Danhalen]

I think he won't be having dinner with that particular Christian again.
Which is the sensible thing to do. But if you get into that situation first off without realising it, you can either be considerate and yeild your lesser need to her greater need, or you can be a "dbag" and not yeild at all.I really think the douche bag thing to do would have been to see "yes, I mind" or to remind her that she should pray in private, and not in the streets and synagogues as the hypocrites do.

He was being tolerant of her religious observances. He did not need to go any further than he did.

Similarly, should people stop saying "bless you" when I sneeze, when they are aware that I am not a Christian (it actually bothers some people)? Does that make all the people who bless me dbags?

[Maitreya]

Does it matter why she needed it? She asked for it, the OP said he would give it and didn't. That's rude, no matter what her initial reasons for asking were.
All she asked was if she could pray. He said yes. That should've been enough. If she didn't want him to eat, then she should've said, "Would you please stop eating so I can pray without distraction?" or something. I think she sounds just plain, old pushy.

[James]

Somehow my very Southern Baptist deacon grandfather has been able to make it through meals with praying while I eat. I don't see why this chick couldn't. I wouldn't say either party was rude, but getting huffy when someone doesn't cater to your religious whims is pretty tacky.

[RecoveringPhilosopher]

When you're in a public setting like that, somebody's deep-seated beliefs should trump your mere appetite every time.Why? Why should someone else's lifestyle choices compel me to change my behavior? Her prayer did not require anyone else to be observant. Perhaps she should be more thick skinned in a public arena.

Nice name.

But, to answer your question - because when you choose to associate with other people, you are implicitely agreeing to be sociable. Like, you don't ask a girl to go out with you just so you can beat her up. You don't ask somebody to play basketball with you so you can take the ball away from them and throw it at their head. And you don't go out to dinner with people to be rude to them. Sometimes there just has to be some concessions to not be rude. In this case, a concession was necessary. Religion > eating ten seconds earlier. If you don't want to have to deal with other people's religions, or you think a small concession is being "compelled", then the choice is pretty simple: don't associate with them in the first place. Don't go out to dinner with Christians. Don't have Christian friends. Whatever. Social relationships sometimes require socially acceptable concessions.

Aqualung, I'm an atheist. My religious beliefs necessitate that I not pray and that I not participate in religious activity. You seem to think that I should have stopped eating so she could pray as she saw fit. Why should her beliefs trump mine?

For those of you who are wondering, we've had dinner together since then, and it didn't come up.

[gnomon]

This is going here because I don't know where it should go, but I need an answer.

So, I'm at a restaurant with my girlfriend and another couple, who are her friends. Her friend is pretty christian, which is fine. So we all get our food, and I start eating. And the christian friend says to me "Do you mind if I pray?" And I say no, and continue to eat my delicious meal. And she says again "Do you mind if I pray?" And again, I say no, and keep eating. So she prays, and we go on to have a lovely evening.
Clearly, this young woman expected me to stop eating and wait for her to pray. Is this presumptive of her, or am I a dbag for continuing to eat? Why or why not? Show you work.

(I mean, I am actually a dbag, but I'm asking about this one particular instance)



I've read this and feel like I have to respond.

I don't care. I think you were both just a little bit rude. I would probably do the same thing you did.

Oh well. Pass me the barbecue sauce.

edit: Upon further thought, if I were with my girlfriend at the table I would probably do what she did. Yeah, that's sad. Except I don't have a girlfriend so I can pretty much be as snarky as I want to people. Oh, how painful.

[Hallie]

I don't think you did anything impolite at all. I think that her expectation that everyone should observe the prayer regardless of their religion is far less polite than the fact that you kept eating.

Also, one could just as easily say that she shouldn't have nontheist friends if she can't take it when they don't want to finish the prayer in mixed spiritual company.

[Aqualung]

Aqualung, I'm an atheist. My religious beliefs necessitate that I not pray and that I not participate in religious activity. You seem to think that I should have stopped eating so she could pray as she saw fit. Why should her beliefs trump mine?

For those of you who are wondering, we've had dinner together since then, and it didn't come up.

I think you're being disingenuous, so I'm having a hard time giving you a sincere response. Sorry. :(

[RecoveringPhilosopher]

I think you're being disingenuous, so I'm having a hard time giving you a sincere response. Sorry. :(

I imagine you think I'm being disingenuous because I'm calling my preferences on the matter religious, is that right?
Either way, I have a strong disinclination to kowtow to christian idiosyncrasies. I was a christian for 22 years, I think I've put up with it long enough.

[Aqualung]

I think you're being disingenuous, so I'm having a hard time giving you a sincere response. Sorry. :(

I imagine you think I'm being disingenuous because I'm calling my preferences on the matter religious, is that right?
Yeah. I have a really hard time believing that you actually care exactly as much as a Christian cares about praying that you should be able to eat your meal ten seconds earlier, and that pausing to be considerate actually causes you religious anguish. Pausing because you're in a public setting for somebody is not kowtowing. Maybe if she required you to bow your head, too, or maybe if she then said her prayer out loud. But she just asked you to pause. You could have thought about anything you wanted to, you could have looked around at other diners, you could have folded a quick origami flower with your napkin. Being quiet is not kowtowing.

[RecoveringPhilosopher]

Yeah. I have a really hard time believing that you actually care exactly as much as a Christian cares about praying that you should be able to eat your meal ten seconds earlier, and that pausing to be considerate actually causes you religious anguish. Pausing because you're in a public setting for somebody is not kowtowing. Maybe if she required you to bow your head, too, or maybe if she then said her prayer out loud. But she just asked you to pause. You could have thought about anything you wanted to, you could have looked around at other diners, you could have folded a quick origami flower with your napkin. Being quiet is not kowtowing.

I think christianity is stupid and terrible. I usually keep this attitude to myself, but what pausing in this manner would have directly conflicted with my beliefs.

[Aqualung]

I think christianity is stupid and terrible. I usually keep this attitude to myself, but what pausing in this manner would have directly conflicted with my beliefs.

Consider the thread about recent UUs that got shot by a gunman (not a gamma). I think death happens often enough that it doesn't require a change in attitude. But my lightheartedness in the thread really offended some people. I could have either been a dbag and continued to do something that I knew offended them, or I could have realised that the offense caused to me because I wasn't allowed to continue being lighthearted was probably less than the offense to them if I continued to openly belittle their more convicted beliefs. I might believe that putting on a facade of sadness for people who died that you didn't even know or care about before this is stupid, but that belief is just less than that belief. I just don't think that a belief that somebody is stupid could ever trump a belief in a supreme God that actually cares about every meal you consume. The fact is, the offense caused to you by somebody being a Christian is probably less (seeing as it is a rationally-chosen belief, and it probably happens all the time that you have to see somebody being Christian) than the offense caused to a Christian by having to give a distracted prayer (as their belief is probably not rationally chosen and thus deeper seated, and she probably doesn't have as much experience having her beliefs conflicted as you do).

[RecoveringPhilosopher]

Why do you think it's relevant that I probably offended her more than she would have offended me?

[Aqualung]

Why do you think it's relevant that I probably offended her more than she would have offended me?

Because one of the main goals of voluntary social interaction is to maximise happiness and minimise hurt. When social interaction demands a concession between two otherwise similar things, that seems to be the only logical, socially acceptable method to do it.

[RecoveringPhilosopher]

Because one of the main goals of voluntary social interaction is to maximise happiness and minimise hurt.

What? No. The main goal of social interactions is to maximize happiness and minimize hurt for me. This is why I don't go to a bar and buy everyone's drink, and this is why bar fights sometimes happen.

[Aqualung]

Because one of the main goals of voluntary social interaction is to maximise happiness and minimise hurt.

What? No. The main goal of social interactions is to maximize happiness and minimize hurt for me. This is why I don't go to a bar and buy everyone's drink, and this is why bar fights sometimes happen.

But it's society, not you who gets to decide what a dbag is. maximise your own pleasure and sometimes society (and, hence, people) will think you're a dbag.

[RecoveringPhilosopher]

If society is made up of people who go into bars and buy everyone else drinks, then yes, you're right, but that hasn't been my experience. It's generally socially acceptable to see to your own needs before those of others.

[Aqualung]

If society is made up of people who go into bars and buy everyone else drinks, then yes, you're right, but that hasn't been my experience. It's generally socially acceptable to see to your own needs before those of others.

Then somebody like you probably wouldn't consider you a dbag.

[RecoveringPhilosopher]

If society is made up of people who go into bars and buy everyone else drinks, then yes, you're right, but that hasn't been my experience. It's generally socially acceptable to see to your own needs before those of others.

Then somebody like you probably wouldn't consider you a dbag.

That group that's like me is called everyone, and they'd be wrong, but not because of this

[Maitreya]

I really just don't understand what the big deal is. They were at mutual territory. It's not like he was at a church munching on a bag of Fritos. He wasn't being rude at all in my opinion. If the lady in question wants everyone to stay completely still and silent while she says her pre-dinner prayer, then maybe she shouldn't hang out with people of different religious views.

[Rasta]

I really just don't understand what the big deal is. They were at mutual territory. It's not like he was at a church munching on a bag of Fritos. He wasn't being rude at all in my opinion. If the lady in question wants everyone to stay completely still and silent while she says her pre-dinner prayer, then maybe she shouldn't hang out with people of different religious views.

I agree.

Also, innately placing the beliefs of one (no one eat while I pray) over another (do not adhere to religious practises), seems completely arbitrary.

She was not specific with her request. She did not say:"Would you mind staying silent and not eating while I pray?"

I tend to think that inference is the responsibility of the person communicating a request, rather than the responsibility of the recipiant.

[Adventus]

I would have personally stayed quiet and waited. Mostly because I'd probably make noise while she was praying. I doubt she was expecting you to bow your head and put your hands together. Was she? Probably just wanted silence and I don't think that's an odd ball request. Even if she didn't make the request, who doesn't know that silence during prayer is a norm?

[Rasta]

I would have personally stayed quiet and waited. Mostly because I'd probably make noise while she was praying. I doubt she was expecting you to bow your head and put your hands together. Was she? Probably just wanted silence and I don't think that's an odd ball request. Even if she didn't make the request, who doesn't know that silence during prayer is a norm?

Southern Baptists. Was that a trick question? lol

[IasonOuabache]

I would have personally stayed quiet and waited. Mostly because I'd probably make noise while she was praying. I doubt she was expecting you to bow your head and put your hands together. Was she? Probably just wanted silence and I don't think that's an odd ball request. Even if she didn't make the request, who doesn't know that silence during prayer is a norm?

Southern Baptists. Was that a trick question? lol
Is it true that Matthew 6:6 has been blacked out of every single Baptist bible?

[Maitreya]

Also, innately placing the beliefs of one (no one eat while I pray) over another (do not adhere to religious practises), seems completely arbitrary.
Yea, no one seems to be seeing the secular side of the argument.
She was not specific with her request. She did not say:"Would you mind staying silent and not eating while I pray?"
Exactly.
I tend to think that inference is the responsibility of the person communicating a request, rather than the responsibility of the recipiant.
Same here.

[Maitreya]

Even if she didn't make the request, who doesn't know that silence during prayer is a norm?
I don't need silence when I pray. I don't see why anyone would need absolute silence in order to say in their head, "Thanks for the food, God," or whatever she says when she gives thanks.

[Maitreya]

Is it true that Matthew 6:6 has been blacked out of every single Baptist bible?
Seems to be blacked out of lots of Christians' Bibles, since so many of them want prayer in school to be mandatory.

[Adventus]

Even if she didn't make the request, who doesn't know that silence during prayer is a norm?
I don't need silence when I pray. I don't see why anyone would need absolute silence in order to say in their head, "Thanks for the food, God," or whatever she says when she gives thanks.
Because not everybody prays like you.

[melon]

I don't think you did anything wrong by not participating, but I would've closed my eyes and went along with it just because I'd find it awkward to eat while other people are praying. Should you look at them? Your food? :rofl:

[Maitreya]

Because not everybody prays like you.
So, some people need to inconvenience others in order to pray?

[Aqualung]

Because not everybody prays like you.
So, some people need to inconvenience others in order to pray?

Yes, that's the who point I was trying to make when I spoke about minimising pain and maximising pleasure. Some people need to inconvenience others in order to pray, and some people inconvenience others by not stopping their chow-down while others are praying.

[Maitreya]

Yes, that's the who point I was trying to make when I spoke about minimising pain and maximising pleasure. Some people need to inconvenience others in order to pray, and some people inconvenience others by not stopping their chow-down while others are praying.
I think making someone not eat for your praying is more of an inconvenience than simply eating while someone is praying (esp. when they didn't specify that they wanted you to not eat during their prayer).

[DeathMagus]

It seems to me that there was some blame on both sides, but more on the girl's side. She obviously wanted to ask "Would you pause and wait while I pray," but decided to use a weaselly phrasing, making it seem as though she was asking for much less. RP, who had no intention of refraining from eating, responded naturally (after all, she hadn't asked for anything more). When she asked again, though, it should have been obvious to both parties that she had weaseled the first time, and both parties should have made steps towards arriving at and dealing with the actual request. Her attempt to weasel again was inexcusable. Specifically, she should have rephrased her request: "I'm sorry - I meant 'will you pause for a moment while I pray?'" RP would have said "No," and all would have been right with the world. On the other hand, however, when she simply repeated her question again, RP should have realized that her question wasn't phrased entirely accurately, and should have attempted to clarify the actual request, which he could then deny.

It seems akin to me to another situation - Person 2 is RP, and Person 1 is the friend's date:

Person1: Can you get me a soda?
Person2: Yeah.
(pause)
Person1: Are you going to get me that soda?
Person2: No - I said I could, but I never said I would.

Yes, we all know that Person 2 is technically correct, and that Person 1 messed up, but it's still an obnoxious thing to do. I'm in no way judging you, though - I very well may have done the same thing in such a situation.

[Ðanisty]

People who can't pray while other people are making noise around them need to either learn how to or pray in places that are quiet. The world doesn't stop so that one person can express their religion.

Personally, I think it's usually best to be respectful but the request from this girl was not genuine. She didn't ask for what she wanted and she didn't accept what he wanted anyway. If he said he did mind, do you really think she would have accepted that and let it go? I don't think he was angry because she wanted to pray. I think he was angry because she was being pushy. The fact that he kept eating was his answer to her. Asking again was just snotty, in my opinion.

I have no problem with someone at my table praying, but asking me to stop what I'm doing and sit in silence for your prayer is like asking me to pray with you, especially if you're praying out loud. I have no interest in taking part in someone else's ritual, especially one that goes directly against my beliefs. You can say what you want about how harmless it is, but it hurts me to participate in Christian prayer. I feel like I'm disrespecting Lucifer and myself. I can do it if I have to (like if I'm at church for a relative's confirmation or something), but that's a special situation and a sacrifice I chose to take. On my own time, I prefer not to put myself through it. I cannot honestly believe that everyone here would be comfortable if I asked to pray to Lucifer at dinner. I think most people would feel better if I just kept it to myself and prayed silently.

[Maitreya]

Asking again was just snotty, in my opinion.
That's how I feel, too.

[Rasta]

I cannot honestly believe that everyone here would be comfortable if I asked to pray to Lucifer at dinner. I think most people would feel better if I just kept it to myself and prayed silently.

Very interesting point.

[Adventus]

So, some people need to inconvenience others in order to pray?
Staying quiet isn't an inconvenience to me. It's just something I'd do without you asking. Even if I was really hungry, I'd make an effort to not make any noise. That's just me...And this isn't just with praying, plenty of people naturally try to do little things to make it easier and more comfortable for others. This shouldn't be any different.

Although, I wouldn't have personally have asked twice if I could pray.

[Aqualung]

Yes, that's the who point I was trying to make when I spoke about minimising pain and maximising pleasure. Some people need to inconvenience others in order to pray, and some people inconvenience others by not stopping their chow-down while others are praying.
I think making someone not eat for your praying is more of an inconvenience than simply eating while someone is praying (esp. when they didn't specify that they wanted you to not eat during their prayer).

And I think it's the other way around. Which is probably why I thought he was a dbag and you don't.

[Maitreya]

Staying quiet isn't an inconvenience to me. It's just something I'd do without you asking. Even if I was really hungry, I'd make an effort to not make any noise. That's just me...And this isn't just with praying, plenty of people naturally try to do little things to make it easier and more comfortable for others. This shouldn't be any different.

Although, I wouldn't have personally have asked twice if I could pray.
I just don't understand why she expected him to know that she needed absolute quiet to pray. She just said, "Can I pray?" I probably would've responded the same way he did. I would've thought she was being overly self-important in asking twice.

[Requiem]

No, I don't think it was rude.

If it were me, I would have had no idea that she meant for me to stop eating to wait for her. When she said it the second time, however, I would have stopped in order to minimize unnecessary disturbance. That's just one way of doing things though.

[IasonOuabache]

People who can't pray while other people are making noise around them need to either learn how to or pray in places that are quiet. The world doesn't stop so that one person can express their religion.

Personally, I think it's usually best to be respectful but the request from this girl was not genuine. She didn't ask for what she wanted and she didn't accept what he wanted anyway. If he said he did mind, do you really think she would have accepted that and let it go? I don't think he was angry because she wanted to pray. I think he was angry because she was being pushy. The fact that he kept eating was his answer to her. Asking again was just snotty, in my opinion.

I have no problem with someone at my table praying, but asking me to stop what I'm doing and sit in silence for your prayer is like asking me to pray with you, especially if you're praying out loud. I have no interest in taking part in someone else's ritual, especially one that goes directly against my beliefs. You can say what you want about how harmless it is, but it hurts me to participate in Christian prayer. I feel like I'm disrespecting Lucifer and myself. I can do it if I have to (like if I'm at church for a relative's confirmation or something), but that's a special situation and a sacrifice I chose to take. On my own time, I prefer not to put myself through it. I cannot honestly believe that everyone here would be comfortable if I asked to pray to Lucifer at dinner. I think most people would feel better if I just kept it to myself and prayed silently.
:yeahthat: This is the correct motorcycle.

[Adventus]

I just don't understand why she expected him to know that she needed absolute quiet to pray. She just said, "Can I pray?" I probably would've responded the same way he did. I would've thought she was being overly self-important in asking twice.
It's what happens when a country has overwhelmingly been under the influence of Christianity. I'm sure, if this country was overwhelmingly under the influence of paganism, people may not have known to what to expect or to even expect anything at all.

[Ayodhya]

If she had asked a second time, I would have been confused and would assume that she probably didn't hear me the first time. But I would have kept eating.

So, not a douchebag.

[Maitreya]

It's what happens when a country has overwhelmingly been under the influence of Christianity. I'm sure, if this country was overwhelmingly under the influence of paganism, people may not have known to what to expect or to even expect anything at all.
When I said prayers before eating as a Catholic, I still said them in my head and I didn't ask anyone to stop whatever they were doing. Christians can pray in their heads, too, you know.