Does Lucifer Punish?

[Buttons*]

In all the discussions I've heard about Lucifer being evil because of his rejection to God, and how God is the real evil, and all these other battles. I was wondering though, I've never actually heard anyone ask if Lucifer punishes those who don't follow him. What happens after death for people who happen not to believe in Lucifer? Does he reject them in to heaven? :p

[morning-star]

A major aspect of Luciferian is about free-will.

You can choose to follow that path and take Lucifer as your guide but there's no punishment if you don't. It would be very contradictory of any Luciferian that said there was punishment if you didn't convert to the Luciferian faith.

[Buttons*]

A major aspect of Luciferian is about free-will.

You can choose to follow that path and take Lucifer as your guide but there's no punishment if you don't. It would be very contradictory of any Luciferian that said there was punishment if you didn't convert to the Luciferian faith.

So what does he do with all these souls who are banished from heaven? (assuming that there is one) What if one never chose God or Lucifer? where would they be?

Where do Christians get the idea that Lucifer is going to punish you for all eternity? What would it realistically be like in "hell"?

[morning-star]

Well that comes down to personal beliefs, but personally I don't think there is a heaven or hell there is other dimensions that we go to when we die but I can't see anyone punishing anybody...

if there was a hell it would probably be whatever you perceive it to be if you think your gonna be punished then perhaps you will create that reality for yourself....

[Darkness]

Lucifer does not care if you follow him; not in the sense God wants you to follow Him. The Spirit of Lucifer is sufficient. The Spirit is basically an Anarchist philosophy. It is not Anarchist in the political sense, but rather, a philosophy respecting other peoples right to be without a ruler. In other words, it is not your place to call someone immoral for loving the same-sex or taking drugs as this does not harm you or anyone else (assuming it does not). It is a model of freedom. You do not impose your subjective will upon someone forcefully. So does Lucifer punish those for not believing in him? Absolutely not! He is not arrogant like God, is where he needs everyone to recognize and worship him. He would only punish those who harm others. Lucifer would even accept Godists as long as they do not force themselves on anyone. It is the religion of Freedom.

So what does he do with all these souls who are banished from heaven? (assuming that there is one) What if one never chose God or Lucifer? where would they be?

Lucifer accepts them into his Hellish Kingdom. He is like our big brother.

Well that comes down to personal beliefs, but personally I don't think there is a heaven or hell there is other dimensions that we go to when we die but I can't see anyone punishing anybody...

She is a weird, pagan-like Luciferian. ;)

(I am one to speak, since I do not believe in God or Lucifer). :p

[morning-star]

So does Lucifer punish those for not believing in him? Absolutely not! He is not arrogant like God, is where he needs everyone to recognize and worship him. He would only punish those who harm others. Lucifer would even accept Godists as long as they do not force themselves on anyone. It is the religion of Freedom.


I agree with this 110% Freedom!


She is a weird, pagan-like Luciferian. ;)

(I am one to speak, since I do not believe in God or Lucifer). :p

I'm not weird you just look at the world wrong!:D

[Darkness]

I'm not weird you just look at the world wrong!

No, your pentagram is upside down. :p

[Ðanisty]

These are great questions!
So what does he do with all these souls who are banished from heaven? (assuming that there is one) What if one never chose God or Lucifer? where would they be?Personally, I don't think Lucifer has much use for heaven. I think he'd continue to spend his time here on Earth. It doesn't matter what people think of Lucifer. The idea is freedom. If Lucifer was in charge, we'd all decide for ourselves where we want to live. :lol:

Where do Christians get the idea that Lucifer is going to punish you for all eternity? What would it realistically be like in "hell"?Well, personally, I think it's Satan who's really more in charge of that stuff. Honestly, I don't know where they get this idea. Even in Christianity, it doesn't make much sense to me. If the devil is supposed be in charge of hell, what would be his motivation for doing what God says? When I get fired, I stop listening to the boss, ya know?

[Darkness]

Well, personally, I think it's Satan who's really more in charge of that stuff. Honestly, I don't know where they get this idea. Even in Christianity, it doesn't make much sense to me. If the devil is supposed be in charge of hell, what would be his motivation for doing what God says? When I get fired, I stop listening to the boss, ya know?

The Old Testament does not have the concept of the Devil. The New Testament only mentions that Satan is the temper. My guess is that in the Medieval age, when Christian mythology was rampant, the idea was formulate and has been with us ever since.

[Ðanisty]

Well, personally, I think it's Satan who's really more in charge of that stuff. Honestly, I don't know where they get this idea. Even in Christianity, it doesn't make much sense to me. If the devil is supposed be in charge of hell, what would be his motivation for doing what God says? When I get fired, I stop listening to the boss, ya know?

The Old Testament does not have the concept of the Devil. The New Testament only mentions that Satan is the temper. My guess is that in the Medieval age, when Christian mythology was rampant, the idea was formulate and has been with us ever since.All the more reason that it is ridiculous, don't you think? Too much of what Christians believe isn't even in the Bible.

[Darkness]

All the more reason that it is ridiculous, don't you think? Too much of what Christians believe isn't even in the Bible.

And too much of it is in the Bible.

[fallen angel zar'roc]

Where do Christians get the idea that Lucifer is going to punish you for all eternity? What would it realistically be like in "hell"?
I have know idea were Christians get their idea of Lucifer punishing poeple. What I keep running across is that Satan punishes people and no where in the old testement is Lucifer called Satan which means they're two different beings. My realistic hell has fire and ice that burns the guilty. The rest are not punished for petty things.

[Buttons*]

Lucifer does not care if you follow him; not in the sense God wants you to follow Him. The Spirit of Lucifer is sufficient. The Spirit is basically an Anarchist philosophy. It is not Anarchist in the political sense, but rather, a philosophy respecting other peoples right to be without a ruler. In other words, it is not your place to call someone immoral for loving the same-sex or taking drugs as this does not harm you or anyone else (assuming it does not). It is a model of freedom. You do not impose your subjective will upon someone forcefully. So does Lucifer punish those for not believing in him? Absolutely not! He is not arrogant like God, is where he needs everyone to recognize and worship him. He would only punish those who harm others. Lucifer would even accept Godists as long as they do not force themselves on anyone. It is the religion of Freedom. if only we knew what freedom really was :) (Philosophy major here....)


Lucifer accepts them into his Hellish Kingdom. He is like our big brother. lol, that sounds worse than is meant I think :p

[Buttons*]

Personally, I don't think Lucifer has much use for heaven. I think he'd continue to spend his time here on Earth. It doesn't matter what people think of Lucifer. The idea is freedom. If Lucifer was in charge, we'd all decide for ourselves where we want to live. :lol: I suppose. So according to Luciferianism, there's no special place for ya'll? I can't even remember if there's true Luciferian literature. I know that some Luciferians use Gnostic Gospels, but those books don't really even mention anyone other than the demiurge... who's everyone else's god :p

Well, personally, I think it's Satan who's really more in charge of that stuff. Honestly, I don't know where they get this idea. Even in Christianity, it doesn't make much sense to me. If the devil is supposed be in charge of hell, what would be his motivation for doing what God says? When I get fired, I stop listening to the boss, ya know?So Satan and Lucifer aren't the same person. Mmmm, confusion begins to build :D Should I have put this inside the Satanism thread instead?

The "devil" doesn't do what God says.... supposedly. *shrug*

[Buttons*]

I have know idea were Christians get their idea of Lucifer punishing poeple. What I keep running across is that Satan punishes people and no where in the old testement is Lucifer called Satan which means they're two different beings. My realistic hell has fire and ice that burns the guilty. The rest are not punished for petty things.

usually people assume that they are the same person. Much in the same way that they view various names of "God" as the same person.... freaky innit? What defines " the guilty"? What is satan to you?

[Darkness]

if only we knew what freedom really was :) (Philosophy major here....)

Freedom is not having an external force affecting you. Obviously, every interaction we have limits our freedom to a certain degree. We merely try to balance the two so we are happy.

(Evangelion fans might remember that the only way Shinji was truly free was when he was alone in his own Universe).

I can't even remember if there's true Luciferian literature.

Read the Revelation of Lucifer the Divine.

[Ðanisty]

There are no books we're required to follow, but there is tons of literature about Lucifer. He's always been a popular character. :D

[Buttons*]

Freedom is not having an external force affecting you. Obviously, every interaction we have limits our freedom to a certain degree. We merely try to balance the two so we are happy.

(Evangelion fans might remember that the only way Shinji was truly free was when he was alone in his own Universe). well, that's only one concept of freedom though... that'd be negative freedom. There's also positive freedoms, the freedom "to" do something. Freedom "from" is what you're referring to. It's freedom from interference, and it's only one way to look at the entire scope of things. Now, in ultimate freedom, as you say Lucifer wants for us, well, there are about 200 definitions of freedom, and not all of them match up. Then there's freedom versus being able. There's moralized freedom versus moral freedom... let's just say this is a mess that needs a new thread! Anyway, it's all about your personal view of freedoms, and I somehow doubt that Lucifer only follows your definition. *shrug*


Read the Revelation of Lucifer the Divine.When was it written?

[Buttons*]

There are no books we're required to follow, but there is tons of literature about Lucifer. He's always been a popular character. :D

I suppose you could argue that any literature that features free thought is Lucifer inspired. :) There have been hundreds of people of all faiths who have written literature while thinking freely. Does this encompass Monotheists who have had various philosophies?

[Ðanisty]

There are no books we're required to follow, but there is tons of literature about Lucifer. He's always been a popular character. :D

I suppose you could argue that any literature that features free thought is Lucifer inspired. :) There have been hundreds of people of all faiths who have written literature while thinking freely. Does this encompass Monotheists who have had various philosophies?Sure, why not? I'm willing to take in anything that has Luciferian principles. We aren't tied down to Christian mythology.

[Darkness]

Anyway, it's all about your personal view of freedoms, and I somehow doubt that Lucifer only follows your definition.

Lucifer does what I tell him to. ;)

[Moriah Conquering Wind]

Not.

Pardon the thread necromancy. It bes not here before to participate and some of these threads bes of interest.

OK forget "afterlife" and Hieronymous Boschian hells and all that. The real question bes whether Lucifer punishes HERE, NOW, if you displease Him somehow. Yeah? That bes what presses most, it thinks.

A Thelemic text actually provides the answer Moriah has found to be true, quite nicely.15. I have hidden myself beneath a mask: I am a black and terrible God.
16. With courage conquering fear shall ye approach me: ye shall lay down your heads upon mine altar, expecting the sweep of the sword.
17. But the first kiss of love shall be radiant on your lips; and all my darkness and terror shall turn to light and joy.
18. Only those who fear shall fail. Those who have bent their backs to the yoke of slavery until they can no longer stand upright; them will I despise.
19. But you who have defied the law; you who have conquered by subtlety or force; you will I take unto me, even I will take you unto me.
Liber Tzaddi vel Hamus Hermeticus (http://lib.oto-usa.org/libri/liber0090.html), sub figurâ XC, verse 15-19.

(Additionally, verse 19 offsets the tension in verse 18 for those what bes daimonizomai -- a specific type of hierodoule (ἱεροδούλη) in which utter subjugation becomes a necessary part of the formula for attainment. And for those in need thereof or who can/will receive? instructions for reconsecration and rebinding if you have breached pact in word or deed and require retrieval.)

[Phaedra]

I've always seen Lucifer more as offering enlightenment, if you choose to find it (and him). If one doesn't want it, it's not his job to punish. Eventually people will get tired of mucking around in the dark. Lucifer is patient. :)

[Ðanisty]

I've always seen Lucifer more as offering enlightenment, if you choose to find it (and him). If one doesn't want it, it's not his job to punish. Eventually people will get tired of mucking around in the dark. Lucifer is patient. :):yeahthat:
Looking back, I know I was one of his children from the very beginning, but it didn't seem to bother him that it took me 22 years to figure it out.

[pashSANITY]

First post =) (nice to find an interesting forum for).

From my personal view... I see Lucifer as the bringer of light, as the light inside ourselves. Light being knowledge, consciousness, and understanding. We've developed past basic instinctual existence, which is still important, but now we have the ability to push our knowledge and understanding past the borders of even the physical world. Does Lucifer punish those who do not follow him? Does knowledge punish? No, but a lot of people now a days fall so deeply into their egotistic state of primal desires driven by the knowledge Edward Bernays (the grandfather of consumerism) brought to modern day marketers, we punish ourselves. Ignoring the possibility of a new gnostic understanding those people flourish and crumble under their every day existence of consumerist origin.

I believe people as a general whole have taken the gift of conscious thought and turned it against us... That is the punishment for rejecting Lucifer, who is symbolic of knowledge, wisdom, and gnostic understanding, a lost ego-driven society, the majority of which seems to have no hope of coming to understand themselves.

p.s. These words are all personal conclusions, an opinion of my own experience on the road to a deeper understanding. These opinions are objective to me but do not reflect the views of Luciferians as a whole, for each one travels on their own journey, for everything is chaos and everything is subjective in dual existence.

[Ðanisty]

First post =) (nice to find an interesting forum for).

From my personal view... I see Lucifer as the bringer of light, as the light inside ourselves. Light being knowledge, consciousness, and understanding. We've developed past basic instinctual existence, which is still important, but now we have the ability to push our knowledge and understanding past the borders of even the physical world. Does Lucifer punish those who do not follow him? Does knowledge punish? No, but a lot of people now a days fall so deeply into their egotistic state of primal desires driven by the knowledge Edward Bernays (the grandfather of consumerism) brought to modern day marketers, we punish ourselves. Ignoring the possibility of a new gnostic understanding those people flourish and crumble under their every day existence of consumerist origin.

I believe people as a general whole have taken the gift of conscious thought and turned it against us... That is the punishment for rejecting Lucifer, who is symbolic of knowledge, wisdom, and gnostic understanding, a lost ego-driven society, the majority of which seems to have no hope of coming to understand themselves.

p.s. These words are all personal conclusions, an opinion of my own experience on the road to a deeper understanding. These opinions are objective to me but do not reflect the views of Luciferians as a whole, for each one travels on their own journey, for everything is chaos and everything is subjective in dual existence.It sounds like you're basically saying people punish themselves with their own ignorance and complacency. I completely agree with that.

[wh44]

...
It sounds like you're basically saying people punish themselves with their own ignorance and complacency. I completely agree with that.
There are non-Luciferians that also agree with that. ;)

[EtuMalku]

Welcome aboard!

Lucifer is the 'Bringer of Light' (Lux Lucis) He is gnosis, truth and Divine knowledge.

Lucifer symbolizes progress and intellectual inquiry
Through Lucifer's spirit humanity first climbed down from the trees and has represented the flow of progress ever since.

But Lucifer may be more than a metaphor for rebellion, enlightenment and advancement - as the pure creative and motive light, Lucifer may actually be the key to life itself . . .

The DNA within the nuclei of all cells of living creatures contains biophotons or ultra-weak proton emissions - in other words, light!
A dynamic web of light constantly released and absorbed by the DNA connects cells, tissues and organs and serve as the organism's main communication network.

Lucifer is on the move inside you and me, chattering between cell and cell, rousing the cohorts of the life-force, keeping us alive and wonderful. Every man and woman is a star - and now we know we have our own inner light.


Ir Shti Shta-tu
EM