The revealed language

[Green]

Jews believe the Torah was revealed by God in the holy writ of Hebrew as well as Oral Law in Aramaic.

Muslims believe the Qur'an was revealed by God in the language of Arabic.

And I'm afraid I don't know what Christians believe about the language of revelation. Koine Greek?

This accounts for why all English translations of the Torah or Qur'an are just that. Translations. In Islam and Judaism, the only way to truly read God's actual words are to learn Classical Hebrew/Arabic. Sounds perfectly okay to me.

This also explains (but I'm not fully happy with) why Islamic prayers have to be done in Arabic (because God revealed the prayer format in Arabic). I don't know all that much about Jewish prayers, but I presume it's the same.

Here's my question. I can understand reading the holy texts in their native language, but surely God will understand your and prayer in whatever language. After all He knows the hearts and minds of everyone doesn't he?

And I'd love to get clarification from Christians on the revealed language of the New Testament. Does it really matter for Christianity?

[Krashlocke]

Regardless of the language, I can tell you from personal experience that semitic languages do not translate well to English and a good portion of the meaning is lost.

If we are to carry your logic (which isn't bad) regarding the language of prayer to its' conclusion, why pray at all? Does not God already know your veneration of him in your heart? I think that the answer lies in what people receive from their prayer - a sense of closeness to the divine and a bit of ritual in their daily lives. While these faiths mostly promote a one-on-one dialogue with the divine with no intermediary, theology has a long history of people preferring to engage in (at least publicly) displays of prayer rituals in tongues other than their own. This could also be a prime opportunity for worshipers to directly practice their text's language that they might study and understand it better - why not?

If my statement is true regarding a preference towards prayer in a foreign language, I wonder if this has any bearing on the largely monolinguistical evangelicals "speaking in tongues"? Do you think that this phenomenon could simply be a manifestation of the desire to speak a revealed language without having the ability to do so (both due to a lack of primary text in its' original language and the lack of foreign language ability)?

[Green]

If we are to carry your logic (which isn't bad) regarding the language of prayer to its' conclusion, why pray at all? Does not God already know your veneration of him in your heart? I think that the answer lies in what people receive from their prayer - a sense of closeness to the divine and a bit of ritual in their daily lives. While these faiths mostly promote a one-on-one dialogue with the divine with no intermediary, theology has a long history of people preferring to engage in (at least publicly) displays of prayer rituals in tongues other than their own. What troubles me is when this becomes doctrine. If you want to pray most of your daily prayer in Arabic as everyone says you should do, that's great. But when someone starts saying that you are doing your prayers wrong because you're speaking in English, well that troubles me.

This could also be a prime opportunity for worshipers to directly practice their text's language that they might study and understand it better - why not?Funnily enough, I've asked this question on a Muslim forum before and a responder answered very similarly:


It also indirectly encourages you to brush up on your Arabic for when you need to read the Quran. It ecourages you to learn a second language, which I am sure you all know has its advantages for when it comes to comprehension and thinking about things.

If my statement is true regarding a preference towards prayer in a foreign language, I wonder if this has any bearing on the largely monolinguistical evangelicals "speaking in tongues"? Do you think that this phenomenon could simply be a manifestation of the desire to speak a revealed language without having the ability to do so (both due to a lack of primary text in its' original language and the lack of foreign language ability)?That's a really interesting idea. I think the vast majority of cases where a faith-healer knocks you over and you start speaking in some strange language - that's nonsense. People have expectations when they come into those performances, and those expectations colour the way they act.

But people who genuinely speak in tongues? Maybe they do want to get beyond the usual everyday prayer and reach out to God in a new way. I really can't say. I've certainly never spoken to someone who has experienced these sort of things.

[Kelly]

this discussion started on holy languages - which include not only Hebrew and Arabic, but also Sanskrit.

i believe that reading the Revealed Word of God in the original language is to preserve the text and prevent corruption of the scripture.

The purpose of prayer is another matter. i don't believe that God needs our prayers. When i pray i remind myself of my commitment. It also strengthens my bond to God. (if you don't feel as close to God as you one did, who moved?)
so prayer in an incomprehensible language would have a similar effect to silent meditation.

Evangelical Christians "speaking in tongues" has nothing to do with using a common language to unite believers across language barriers.

[Ayodhya]

this discussion started on holy languages - which include not only Hebrew and Arabic, but also Sanskrit.

Sanskrit is the language of the Hindu scriptures, for clarification.

[Green]

Is Sanskrit still spoken/written/studied?

The purpose of prayer is another matter. i don't believe that God needs our prayers. When i pray i remind myself of my commitment. It also strengthens my bond to God. (if you don't feel as close to God as you one did, who moved?)
so prayer in an incomprehensible language would have a similar effect to silent meditation.Mm, that's a great way to put it.

[jewscout]

prayer in hebrew is done for a number of reasons.

one, is that, yes, we believe hebrew to be "leshon kodesh" the holy tounge/language. therefore, while G-d can understand all languages, it is best to pray in Hebrew when you engage in prayer.

another reason is that this is a continuous way of seperating ourselves from everybody else, which, to a certain extent, is what many of the mitzvot are about.

also it adds continuity to the Jewish people. In this way a jew from Lithuania can go to a bet knesset (synagogue) in egypt and pray and not be totally lost because it's done in the local language (though the tunes and way the service is done may be different than what he's used to)

[lilithu]

Jews believe the Torah was revealed by God in the holy writ of Hebrew as well as Oral Law in Aramaic.

Muslims believe the Qur'an was revealed by God in the language of Arabic.

And I'm afraid I don't know what Christians believe about the language of revelation. Koine Greek?I thought Jesus spoke Aramaic, so that should be the "revealed language of the New Testament. It's not clear to me that Moses and the other Jewish prophets spoke Aramaic. I've only heard it as Hebrew. At any rate, Hebrew, like Arabic in Islam, is considered the holy language of Judaism, not Aramaic.


Here's my question. I can understand reading the holy texts in their native language, but surely God will understand your and prayer in whatever language. After all He knows the hearts and minds of everyone doesn't he?Prayer isn't just for God to hear. After all, God doesn't even need to hear any sound uttered for God to know hearts and minds. Prayer is for the person praying, an act of spiritual practice that aids in transformation. Both Hebrew and Arabic... and Sanskrit for that matter, are considered special languages. (I'm gonna say "magical" at the risk of sounding hokey.) It isn't just literal meaning that's lost when you translate to another language like English. We lose something of the magic of the word. Remember that God created by speaking. When God said "Let There Be Light," He said it in Hebrew, not English. It is thought that words have a creative power; the very sound of the words, not just the meaning. This is true in Hinduism also, where certain sounds like "Om" are thought to have unique attributes. (It is the sound of the universe in creation.) Certain chants are thought to work because of their sounds as much as their meaning. So translating into English would lose that.


And I'd love to get clarification from Christians on the revealed language of the New Testament. Does it really matter for Christianity?I don't think so. Not in the same way. One might study Greek in order to more fully understand the original meaning of the text but I don't think Christians feel there is something "magical" about the sound of any particular language. Perhaps some Catholics feel that way about Latin and some Eastern Orthodox feel that way about Greek. But I don't think your average Christian views language that way.

[Ayodhya]

Is Sanskrit still spoken/written/studied?

Unlike Christianity which translated the Bible into many languages and whose practitioners say their prayers in their particular language, Hindu scriptures, though there are translations, are said in Sanskrit.

It is not spoken in common language but its influence is seen in languages that are its descendants (primarily North Indian languages and Marathi). There is a famous village in Kerala (South India) that has become famous for speaking Sanskrit as a popular language of the people.

It is very much still studied.

[Booko]

The Baha'i Scriptures were revealed in Arabic and Farsi.

They've been translated, with much care, though not all have been translated yet. It helps that we are not too distant in time from our origins, so we have less of a concern about the meanings in language changing over time.

Baha'is say prayers in whatever language they like. It's not at all uncommon to go to a devotional gathering or a funeral or other gathering and hear prayers in all sorts of languages.

In the case of funerals in this country, the free form nature of most funerals really confuses the heck out of funeral directors more used to a structured ceremony. They never know when it's "supposed to end." Well, neither do we. It ends when everyone is finished, pretty much.

Devotional gatherings are much the same way. There may be some "planned" set of readings and prayers, but typically after that there's an open invitation for anyone to contribute a reading or prayer if they want. Our community typically moves into song along with the prayers. Usually someone starts something off and then others join in. Or there's one member who typically brings his guitar along and we kind of wing it from there.

[Thomas]

And I'm afraid I don't know what Christians believe about the language of revelation. Koine Greek?
I would probably argue that all the Sacred Scriptures were written in the language in common usage at the time ... rather than the Scripture 'revealing' the language in which it is written.

In Catholic terms, as soon as Christ opened up His teaching to the whole world, then the 'message' itself transcends the boundaries of language ... He probably spoke Aramaic, He might well have been multi-lingual ... the New Testament was written in Greek, the language of the Roman Catholic Church is Latin ...

What is more important than language is tradition. No Sacred Scripture can be fully contained and expressed in human language, and least of all on the written page ... and language is a human construct ... and so all traditions insist that accurate, authentic and reliable commentary and instruction is a necessary requirement for the correct reception of Sacred Scripture.

There are of course degrees of insight and understanding, but nevertheless, without the hermeneutic keys, the full import of the text will not be properly understood.

The language of Christianity is the language of love.

Having said all that, as someone studying theology, then an understanding of terms is all important in the interpretation of documents, and a working knowledge of Greek and/or Latin is a requirement.

Thomas

[Jayhawker Soule]

Remember that God created by speaking. When God said "Let There Be Light," He said it in Hebrew, not English.I find it remarkable that anyone would believe such a thing.

Languages evolve and Hebrew, as one of the Semitic Languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages), was no exception. Life had a long and marvelous history long before the 12th-10th century BCE advent of Biblical Hebrew. As for translation, it is all 'translation' in the sense that we continue to learn more about the intended meaning behind the Biblical Hebrew vernacular. Even the Hebrew of Hillel and Rashi was a reconstruction.

[Thomas]

A further thought ...

The Prologue to the Gospel of St John is one of the most famous Christian texts,perhaps the most famous, I would guess, after Genesis.

"In the beginning was the word ... " (John 1:1)
When I began my theological studies, I favoured the Greek 'logos' as a far better and more meaningful term than the Latin 'verbum' or its English equivalent, 'word'.

"En arche, en logos ... "
As something of a Neoplatonist, an Hermeticist, a symbolist, and armchair Patristic theologian, verbum seemed to offer little, whereas logos spoke volumes.

Then I contemplated the term 'word' outside of its everyday connotation.

What does it imply? A word is spoken, it implies consciousness, self-awareness, being ... it implies self to self, in which resides the possibility of self and other ... creation ... And, of course, Trinity ... Incarnation.

Such a rich word! Such fathomless depth ... such reverberance ... measured against it, logos might seem a mere technicality.

So now I favour 'word' over 'logos' when I meditate on John 1:1.

But if you want to start me off on 'in the beginning' (English) and 'en arche' (Greek) and bereshiyth (Hebrew), then the mileage is endless, but if I discuss logos, I soon transit to verbum.

+++

What makes language, what makes anything 'sacred', is that it is set aside (from which the term derives). It is reserved for God alone.

In the Hebrew Tradition, the Tetragrammaton, the Name of God, should never be spoken ... in Christianity, Jesus took that name to Himself (the 'I am' statements in John) ... but He gave us a word beyond it, the word that He used to address The Lord (Hebrew adonai, Greek arche anarchos) ... Abba, Father ... a simple, everyday, mundane word.

The language of Christianity is the language of the heart, as is all Sacra Doctrina.

Thomas

[mo.mentum]

Clarification. In Islam, Arabic is not considered a "holy language", nor any other language per se. Arabic is just referred to as a clear language for revelation. The pre-Islamic arab pagans were said to have been envious of the Jews who lived amongst them because they had a divine book that spoke to them in their own language. As well as Sabeans and Christians who had revelations in their own tongues. Whereas the Arabs just had their pagan beliefs and nothing written down. When the Qur'an was revealed, it oft repeats that it's a revelation in Arabic for those people to understand it fully. Doesn't make it a holy language though. Although of course, it's revealed and authored in a way that makes it hard to translate the full meaning and nuances into non-semetic language, i'd be very interested to read a Hebrew translation of the Qur'an! I've seen Arabic Torahs, but not the other way around. Salaam!

[Aiyizo]

I'm fairly certain that in my faith, revelation (whether on a personal or church-wide scale) is given in the language that whomever is receiving revelation can best understand. So when a person living in, say, South Korea receives revelation, he or she will hear it in Korean (assuming that Korean is the language that he or she is most comfortable with). It is the content, not the vehicle, that matters here.

By extension, we believe that prayers can be said in any language and still have the same effect for the same reason.

EDIT: This referring to modern revelation. When trying to understand revelation given to prophets of old, the less translation steps, the better (which is why Mormons prefer the KJ version of the Bible). After all, the closer the fount the purer the streams...

[Krashlocke]

Clarification. In Islam, Arabic is not considered a "holy language", nor any other language per se. Arabic is just referred to as a clear language for revelation. The pre-Islamic arab pagans were said to have been envious of the Jews who lived amongst them because they had a divine book that spoke to them in their own language. As well as Sabeans and Christians who had revelations in their own tongues. Whereas the Arabs just had their pagan beliefs and nothing written down. When the Qur'an was revealed, it oft repeats that it's a revelation in Arabic for those people to understand it fully. Doesn't make it a holy language though. Although of course, it's revealed and authored in a way that makes it hard to translate the full meaning and nuances into non-semetic language, i'd be very interested to read a Hebrew translation of the Qur'an! I've seen Arabic Torahs, but not the other way around. Salaam!

This is different from what I've traditionally understood. From my research it is believed that unlike other scriptures which are regarded as having been divinely inspired but ultimately written by the hand of man, the Qur'an was passed down in a more direct manner in the very language of paradise. This is often used as justification for making translation undesirable and from a secular perspective, it was critical to Arab expansion by the establishment of a new lingua franca and furthering the homogenization of tribal culture.

[jewscout]

i'd be very interested to read a Hebrew translation of the Qur'an!


i've seen them in book stores here in Israel

[glo]

I agree with other Christians here. To my knowledge and understanding there is no emphasis on a 'sacred language' in Christianity.

[ebia]

I agree with other Christians here. To my knowledge and understanding there is no emphasis on a 'sacred language' in Christianity.
Agreed. Although recognising that all translations are imperfect, and therefore from a study point of view there is need to refer back to the original language, Christians tend to view the language as a means to an end. Maybe it's because Christian scriptures are written in 3 languages (Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek), that when the N.T. authors quote from the O.T. they tend to quote from the LXX translation, that Jesus conversations are (presumably) reported in translation from original Aramaic conversations, etc. It would be pretty much impossible for Christians to hold to one language having a special status above all others.